This interview was conducted via phone shortly before the Indiana tour.

How is life in Nashville?

Great. It's getting to be summer so everything is slowing down… it's slower than it usually is. It's good. I'm not going to see much of it here so I'm just relishing it. But the weather's great, home life is good, the dogs are great - we're one big happy, hairy family.

When we spoke in Norfolk during in 2001, you spoke half-kiddingly about making a double album - an album of rockers and an album of ballads. Essentially that's what you ended up doing - was that the plan all this time or did it just happen that way?

That wasn't the plan. I definitely intended to do Wherever You Are as a record that was more in the "rocker" vein - as "rock" as I get anyway - a logical third record to follow the first two. Indiana came about when that was in the process of a legal wrangling brought about by getting off RCA. I didn't know exactly where it was going to end up, I thought initially I would just sell it off the site or something. I think because there wasn't any sort of pressure to make it radio palatable, no one was forcing me - not forcing me, I never got forced to do anything by RCA - but no one was exerting any pressure for me to go in any particularly more commercially palatable direction I was able to do it exactly how I wanted it and I think because we just spent over two months in that world of intense studio pro-tooling, all that stuff that made up the process of making Wherever You Are that I just wanted to make something that was a lot simpler and cleaner. Plus there were a lot of ballads hanging around that hadn't made it onto the previous two records that I really thought were worth recording and so that was why Indiana took the shape it did. I couldn't say it was intentional but it is funny that I told you that and that it actually worked out that way.

What will happen to WHEREVER YOU ARE?

I don't know yet. I know it's going to come out at some point. It's a little tricky because stylistically Indiana is an okay follow-up to Mine And Yours but I don't know how Wherever You Are would really follow Indiana because it feels like it's off in another direction - like that was a turn more to the right and Indiana was a turn to the left after Mine And Yours and so I don't know. I'm a little confused about how to do that. I guess that's the best answer I can give at this point.

Why the decision to rerecord "Beauty" and "Oneplusone" which were both originally recorded for Wherever You Are?

"Oneplusone" I just really liked especially… I thought it was really strong. At that point I thought I needed more uptempo moments and I had some other songs that were serving that purpose but at the end of the day I didn't feel like they were doing it as well as "Oneplusone" would. "Beauty" - both of those songs in a way - those were the two that I thought were more timely and I also felt like they both fit, there was a place for both of them on Indiana. Maybe because "Beauty" to me is a larger song and everything felt so small and intimate on Indiana that it expanded the scope of it a little to a comfortable level.

"Bucket Of Girls" and "New Mexico" are outtakes from The Luxury Of Time. Why the decision to blow the dust off these two?

"New Mexico" and also "Human Nature" in a way - I'd been playing that live for a long time and it always went down well live but in the context of the previous records it always felt a little hokey to include it.

So you considered recording "Human Nature" for the previous records?

Yeah, definitely. Everyone was of the mind that it works great live but if we do it the way that it's done it comes off as a little bit too much of a novelty piece in the middle of those other records, whereas this one I think - and this would also go for "Bucket Of Girls" - because we stayed so focused and almost narrow in a sense with the production sensibilities and then we basically used 98% all acoustic instruments I think it ended up allowing more room stylistically for different kinds of songs. A lot of the decisions on Indiana were just "why nots" as opposed to "whys". It was total freedom to do whatever and I just thought we should go for it. It's funny - on this Mavericks tour I sold a decent amount of CDs but I know that if I would have been able to sell Indiana that I would have sold three times as many because "New Mexico" made such an impression on so many people. Probably half the questions I answered were "is ‘New Mexico' on one of these records" and unfortunately it wasn't yet. It's definitely a love it or hate it kind of deal. I felt like there was more freedom to do that. "Bucket Of Girls" I just always really liked a lot and I thought it was a slightly different sort of song than what had been around before. Both of them are - to me - more classically American sort of traditional songs and there's definitely an effort on the other records to make what I do as modern sounding as possible even though those records don't really sound that modern to me. I was just like "fuck it" - it doesn't matter if it sounds modern or if it sounds pop or whatever - just if it's good. I just have a lot of affection for that song; I definitely kept it around and continued to play it live all this time so it seemed like the right time to do it.

Were there any songs - aside from "Chutes And Ladders" which is being held for the "Beauty" single - that were recorded for Indiana that didn't make it?

There were - one was called "How Will The Kids Get High" which we also took a stab at for Wherever You Are and another one that didn't quite get finished called "Lease On Life". Those are there and basically done, but we didn't master them. I don't know why; they're kind of ready to go.

How would you describe your experience at Ironwork Retreat and would you ever do something like that again?

It was great. I learned as much as anybody else there - assuming that anybody learned anything. It was totally relaxed and chilled out and it was a nice thing to be able to relax that deeply but also the experience of sharing whatever little bits and pieces that I've picked up along the way and I guess having to collect that information in a way where hopefully it made sense to other people and had some sort of impact on what they were doing. It was a good perspective for me to get in a way because when I think you stay on this continual cycle of writing, recording, and touring it feels so similar that I have a tendency to forget that I actually know what I'm doing - it's sort of validating. It was really cool that way and really neat to see how people responded. Also, I think it was encouraging to see how people were going through their own struggles with perfecting their craft.

You definitely saw me struggling up there with an out of tune guitar.

I don't remember it that way…

(fumbling) Well that's cool then. Maybe it was the wine. Would you consider doing something like that again?

Yeah, definitely. I don't know if this summer is going to open up enough to allow it but I would definitely like to do that.

What would you say has evolved more over the past few years - your stage presence, your chops or your songwriting?

I would like to think all three, but that's not really answering your question though… I think maybe more my performance. I think one of the great results of getting dropped from RCA really was that I kind of had to just step back and evaluate my situation and where I was at and make a conscious decision about how much I like this as a job. It's not exactly like getting laid off but it's a little bit like that - if you want to take this opportunity to make a career change, somebody has given you a step towards that. It never did seriously cross my mind but I did find that when I started touring without a record label or without even a record to support - when I definitely should have had one - that suddenly everything really became more alive and more exciting. At some point I think with the RCA thing I was guilty of falling into a little bit of a bubble. When you're on a label like that, the business of the label and the expectations of the label are so high and kind of beyond where I was at, one of the negative things about it was that I had a really hard time being satisfied with the success that I was achieving. If I would have taken a step back five years and seen where I had come to, I had so much to be happy about but because I was in a situation where I constantly had people referring to my career as not really having gotten going yet I started to listen to that after a while and I think in turn my performances started to suffer. I would go do a show for fifty people somewhere and instead of being really happy about the fact that I was doing that, I would be thinking, "why am I not playing for 500 people?" instead of what I should be doing. This is a very long answer - I'm sorry. I just think it started to mean more at that point and when it started to mean more it allowed me to give myself over to it a lot more completely and to be thankful that I just had the opportunity to be doing it and somehow it made me a lot more aware of the impact that I had on people and it just became a cyclical thing. I guess the shows have gotten better… I would like to think that my songwriting has gotten better but my songwriting has kind of changed in that it happens over a much longer time period - so I think it's getting better but it's not as immediate as it used to be.

You once mentioned in an interview that you weren't really in favor of independent internet releases and musicians bypassing record companies and releasing music online - is this still your opinion?

I think - I don't know if I explained myself very well - I think to an extent I was probably talking about what I think is probably a slightly negative aspect of the internet - with the total freedom the internet gives people there's also no level of quality control. I think it's great for people to have to opportunity to put out what they want to put out on one level but at the same time…

It floods the market.

It definitely floods the market. On the same level, I certainly wouldn't want record labels - given the choices that they make 90 percent of the time - to be the arbiters of quality anymore. It's not really about quality as much as marketability as we all know. I don't know that I could finish that point. It's not definitely still my opinion but it's more like a point that has to be raised at some junctures. It's so weird, it contradicts a lot of things I think about music. I like how the internet is making people more communal and I think ultimately it's probably going to take a lot of the focus off of making records - at least making records for a ton of money - and probably refocus it back on seeing music live which ironically is where it started. I think that's great. It might just be something that comes out of a place of frustration for me. It's almost hard for me to go into a record store sometimes because as someone who's trying to be heard and make some kind of living off of it… you just look and there's so much stuff, it's kind of crying over spilt milk but I would be lying if I said it didn't just completely overwhelm me sometimes. It's an issue of... is anything going to be heard or is my stuff good enough to really be a part of this process or something, it's kind of there's so much music out here but I know people who pretty much do anything to have that same feeling on a lot of levels too so it's probably a little pretentious of me to be whining about it.

Approximately how much time each day do you spend (a) writing lyrics down; (b) playing guitar; and (c) playing piano?

It goes in spurts for me. I still haven't gotten to where I feel like I'm very disciplined about it because it's really hard for me to establish much of a routine. I usually feel like that just by the time I've actually got some routine going I leave and it gets all fucked up again. It's hard to say - there are months that I spend ten hours, five days a week doing it and then there are months where… I feel like I have been playing so much lately that I'm kind of happy to not do it and not think about it. The thing is it's not a real conscious practice for me. I know as long as I'm putting myself in situations where I'm absorbing information - be it films, art, good conversations with friends, whatever - I know that meter is still running and that I'm still kind of on the clock and at some point something will pop out of nowhere that is a product of all that time spent not doing it too. I remember talking about that a little bit on the retreat. It's a very difficult thing to force yourself to do if you're not at a place to do it. That's a good question.

How long do you typically have a melody in mind before putting lyrics to it?

It depends - every once in a while there is a lyric that comes about pretty quickly but I would say average is about four to six months before I start doing a lyric. I think the melody and chords come way more easily than lyrics do so that's probably why - I get to be lazy about it.

How important is narrative when you're writing songs, if it's important at all? In other words, do you mind it much when a song doesn't make much sense to anybody other than you and a close circle of friends?

I don't really claim to know how it's going to make sense to somebody. In so many instances you think you've written the most obvious and straightforward sentiment and somebody hears it a lot differently. I don't know that as a songwriter that I have the most objective perspective on what a song is going to end up meaning to people. I don't worry about it too much - I probably focus more on how individual words match up with the chords and the melody. I guess the reason I write songs and not poetry is because I feel like there is a magic that happens there that has an emotional quality that is very unique to songwriting. A lot of times you don't know what that is going to spark off in somebody's interpretive abilities or process. It could really - obviously there are hundreds of stories that abound about people thinking one thing completely different from what the writer did. I love that - I'm very into that. I love hearing what people think a song means. I don't like editing myself too much on the front end of it.

Last time I asked you what your favorite song was that you have written, which in retrospect is a ridiculous question. Do you, however, have a et of lyrics that you're most proud of?

Let's see. Definitely, I'm just trying to think of them. To be honest I'm really much more proud of the lyrics on Indiana than I have been on any other records just because… you know, there are definitely lyrics like "Bucket Of Girls" where there are a lot of different directions it could go. I have my idea of it - but kind of going back to your last question, a lot of people could think a lot of different things about that song. Then there's something like "Indiana" which, I don't know how could really get too many different ideas about what that - that's one to me that seems very straightforward. Then again, somebody was saying recently that it was like a really good breakup song.

A lot of reviews have stated that.

That's probably where I read it. To me it wasn't about breaking up at all, it was about that kind of longing feeling you get when you're gone from your significant other for quite a while so again, there's always room for interpretation.

It's people calling "Girl On The Roof" a love song all over again…

Yeah sure, sure. But I like the lyrics on a few of these songs because I don't feel like - it was like the first time I felt comfortable just really being pretty honest about what actually goes on in my life on a lot of levels. I think generally my tendency has been to kind of exaggerate it on one level or another because I just didn't really think that my day to day existence really seems to like live up to much of a rock star myth or whatever, you know. I guess the fact that maybe I have a slightly unique job but I feel like a fairly normal person. Songs like "Nashville" and "Indiana" and "Chutes and Ladders" - which is a little unfair since it's not on the record - but that's another one where it's just me saying exactly what I think about myself which isn't always incredibly flattering but somehow put into music it seems to touch off something in people which I think makes for a more honest listening experience and probably a little more accurate perception of who I actually am, if that's the kind of thing you're interested in.

Have you studied music theory?

No.

Can you read music?

No. I wish I could.

Your guitar style I would have to say is based around the dropped D tuning. Why is this tuning your favorite and how does it affect your writing?

I think it's my favorite still because I do so many solo performances and I also have a lot of songs that if they're not in the key of D, they kind of have enough of that actual chord in them where having that low end when you're doing a solo performance - I think it's impactful. That's probably why - but in the studio when I'm playing with a full band there are other instruments that cover that register so it's not as big of an issue I guess. But now, I've been doing it for so long that I know instinctively how to play in that tuning a lot better than the standard tuning, so it's probably just laziness at this point… (laughter)

So when you write, would you say that you write exclusively in dropped D?

Yeah, I would say so.

Do you use a lot of alternate tunings? How do you figure out chord shapes when you're in odd tunings?

I think probably what inspires that is if I write a song on the piano or if I'm hearing a song as something that's a little ambitious chordally and the easiest way to cover that is to come up with a different kind of tuning on the guitar. There's one that I use sometimes where I tune the B string to a C and that kind of leaves more freedom - if the song is in C - you can kind of move around the fretboard and use different voicings and things like that but you still have that C that's kind of going to ring and add a little bit of an anchor to the tonality of it.

Who's most responsible for teaching you to sing, and what do you remember most about that training?

I took vocal lessons when I was 19 from a guy named Norris. He was and still is a very classically trained singer - not opera or anything - but he sings in the Robert Shaw quartet and all of these kind of very vocal groups. He taught me how to sing, I guess the interesting thing is that I felt like he was trying to make my voice a little too classic and pure. I dropped the lessons eventually and then probably about two years later when I got Jeff Buckley's first EP... I had never heard anything like his voice and I was completely floored by his range and his level of control. I immediately had to be able to sing that way, he was sort of like the new standard. So suddenly in trying to sing like him, the stuff that Norris had been trying to teach me really came into play, so it was those two events. Norris - his whole theory is that when you're singing, you shouldn't be using any different muscles or breath or whatever than you do when you're speaking. So it's really a pretty effortless way of singing, you know - it's all just kind of based around making sure that you have a good source of air and then tightening and loosening your vocal cords to achieve the note that you want.

What concert or show that you have seen holds the fondest memories for you?

Well there are a lot. I think the most recent one I saw - I saw Camper van Beethoven on their reunion tour. When I was in high school in Nashville, there were probably like two people who knew who they were and I kind of got turned on to their records and they were definitely my band. They seemed very exotic and far away. I think they might have played in Nashville then but I couldn't get into the show, so I‘d never seen them play live before and I hadn't really listened to their records for quite a few years. I saw they were coming and I was like "oh my God, I have to go and check it out" and it was the first time that I really had that, almost like reunion tour feeling - that I can understand why these bands from the seventies do such big business. I was totally just right back in my little Honda Civic, you know… just like how to shift gears and all of those basic things that, you know, define you being sixteen years old or whatever. That was great and they were really good.

What song by another artist holds the fondest memories for you?

(silence)

"Hot Rod Hearts" [Robbie DuPree]? (sarcastic)

"Hot Rod Hearts"! (laughter) That's definitely a good one, um… fondest memories… that might be unanswerable. There are just so many ones that, you know, I'm sure you know define different eras that I can't… The first thing that came to mind was that McCartney song - is it "What The Man Said"?

"Listen To What The Man Said".

Yeah, I have really good memories of when that was on the radio and driving around, it seemed like it was summer. We used to live in kind of a rural suburb of Birmingham, Alabama so we had a forty-five minute drive to school both ways and I just remember that being on - so we'll go with that.

What was the last song you heard that really made you take notice?

I was kind of revisiting Erin McKeown's last record and she has this song called "Daisy and Prudence" - that was great, I listened to that about eight times in London, it's kind of just one of those songs that kind of fit the mood.

What kind of life will you be living 20 years from now?

You know, assuming I'm still involved in this business - it's pretty difficult to say because it changes a lot - but I think I'd like to be kind of finishing out the home years of children and I would definitely still like to be involved in music. There are a lot of different things that I would like to do with that, you know, being involved in some sort of instructional capacity although I don't know exactly what I would teach or my qualifications… it just depends on what happens, you know, if I can get to a level with my music career or I have enough income to maybe do things in a little bit more consistently - not luxurious but that's really kind of what it is because I just can't really picture myself being fifty years old and driving around in a fucking rental doing shows! (laughter) Um, it's going to have to be raised a little bit more. So I would love to have an audience that was still around somehow - kind of weird to think about - but I could still go out and perform for it. I'd still like to be making records but maybe focusing a little bit more on songwriting and production, or instruction, and you know, the older I get and the longer I live in Nashville I think I'd definitely like to figure out some way to be involved with what's going on here because it's definitely my hometown and I have an affection for it. I'd love to see it go in a certain way because it's kind of one of those cities that is a little bit of a blank canvas right now - a lot of really good things could happen here - so if I could be a part of that somehow, I would like to be, but it's hard to say exactly what capacity that would be, you know?

You co-wrote "Only A Dream" with Daniel Tashian. Have you ever written with anyone else and what are the advantages and disadvantages of composing songs with other songwriters?

I wrote one other one - "Wherever You Are" - that song I wrote with my stepbrother Jason [Lehning]. I think the great things about it are just when you get together with someone like both of those guys, who are sort of a wellspring of ideas… actually I think Daniel's probably one of those people who has a thousand ideas and my role in that might be to kind of be more the editor and contribute at the same time, and so that's really invigorating. There's not really a downside to it I guess, but it's hard to choose the best idea when you're writing with somebody like that. And then I would say that Jason is probably more of the editor when we write stuff together and I'm more the idea guy, so it's good - it's great to be able to wear both of those hats. Maybe if there's anything that's bad about it - and again, it's not bad - but you have to speak your mind and you have to be really honest about it. To me, music is such a personal thing that - I get better at this as I get older I think - but you never know exactly how receptive someone else is going to be to you not liking their idea or how personally they're going to take it. But as long as you're kind of in the same mode with the ideas to just get the best possible product then that's great.

It's been almost three years since the last time I interviewed you; at this point are there any songs from your first two albums that you would officially consider retired?

No.

So anything I shout [at shows] is fair game?

Yeah, absolutely.

Watch out.

We've had the discussions before about the limitations of trying to pull some of them off in certain situations, but no - I had a thought, I don't know, there's some sort of limitation of me recording anything that's been on those [RCA] records, and I want to say that it's seven years or something - but I was thinking on one of the road trips I was on I was thinking that I would really love to take the band that has been playing with me on this Indiana stuff and do a live record of The Luxury Of Time.

Really?

Yeah, I just think it would be cool and interesting to have it in this arrangement.

That's very cool.

You know, basically just me and piano, drums, bass and cello. I guess that's why I would say that I don't think of any songs as being dead, I don't hate them, they still hold up to me, you know. So we'll see - I don't know how long… I want to say it's like seven years, which is kind of a drag, so if that's the case then I guess I've got a few more years before I can do that - yeah, I guess that's how strongly I feel about them.

Is Blue still the perfect album?

It's still a perfect album - but it's not the only one. Let's see here - maybe I can come up with something more modern.

New Morrissey album comes out next week. Do you want to put that down in advance?

(off-topic lengthy discussion about the new Morrissey album follows - this has been edited for your sanity.)

Um, perfect record. Now I can't even go through my record collection because most of it is on the computer. See last time you gave me this question…

You were going through them.

That's right. And I'm going to do it again. Gonna crank up the iTunes. It's tough to find a perfect record these days, man - they're all just usually great and then they're just three songs too long. You know what? I think - for some reason people don't seem to go that nuts for this record compared to his other stuff - but having revisited it for the fourth time since it came out I have to say I think XO by Elliott Smith might be just about perfect. I think it's outstanding. It was the first Elliott Smith record I ever heard actually, and a lot of people don't like it - but I will stand up for it.